Warren:
Q. Yeah. What sort of memories have you got of that place?
A. I've been informed by some security guards here that it's been burnt down to the ground ... inaudible ... been burnt down to the ground. Is that so?
Q. Well look, just wait till Mr Paine gets a drink for you and just have a rest for a few minutes okay.
A. Mmm. Am I allowed to have.
Q. Feeling alright mate?
A. Ohh yeah, I'm feeling good.
Q. Are you?
A. Yeah. Am I allowed to have a read of them?
Q. No, they're ours mate.
A. They're yours, yeah.
Q. I don't think you'd ahh, find any great interest there mate.
INSPECTOR PAINE RE-ENTERS THE ROOM.
Paine:
Q. I'm not a very good waiter.
A. Ugh, ugh.
Q. Do you have to go past Seascape to get to Roaring Beach?
A. You can and you can't; you can go out past Seascape to get to Roaring Beach or you can go, cut, cut off at Taranna and go around to Roaring Beach.
Q. So which way did you go that day?
A. I cut up at Taranna, went around Roaring Beach. I ... inaudible ... the circle around the, past Port Arthur.
Q. Could you speak up Martin sorry.
A. I actually cut off at Taranna to go round to Roaring Beach that day.
Q. But you didn't say that you called in at the ahh, ahh, Seascape?
A. Seascape I did, that was after I went surfing.
Q. After you went surfing?
A. Yes.
Q. Ohh right, sorry. Where'd you park your car at Roaring Beach?
A. Umm, at the car park there. It's small.
Q. I don't know the area.
A. Ohh there's a small carpark at Roaring Beach and it takes about five minutes to walk into the surf.
Q. So it's quite a long walk for the carpark to the beach?
A. Yeah, about a five minute walk.
Q. Ohh right.
A. Mmm.
Q. What color's your surfboard?
A. It's umm, all different colors, it's got a bit of purple, it's got a bit of white and, it's a Stranger surfboard.
Q. Did anyone else see you at Roaring Beach?
A. There were two other people bodysurfing on that day.
Q. Did they have wetsuits on?
A. They did, short ones.
Q. Short ones.
Warren:
Q. Did, ahh, were you talking to them at all?
A. No.
Q. They saw you?
A. I reckon they did but they were, they was, they were that, oh a fair distance away.
Q. Mmm.
A. And if I was surfing at one end, they'll surf at the other.
Paine:
Q. What were you wearing umm, before you obviously took your clothes off to go surfing?
A. I was wearing a tracksuit. And ahh, I was wearing a whole tracksuit but the other half of the tracksuit was blue. Mmm and a jacket.
Q. Did you walk from your car to the beach with that on?
A. Ohh no, I had umm, ohh with my clothes.
Q. Yeah.
A. On? No I had to wait around for a while because I forgot the towel and I was shivering a bit and I put my clothes on, they were a bit wet.
Q. So you put them back on at the beach?
A. Mmm.
Q. Ohh right.
A. Had to stand for about five or ten minutes till I dried off.
Q. And after you left Roaring Beach, where'd you go then?
A. Umm, dunno, I stopped ahh, at umm, Nubeena and got a coffee and I think I got a toasted sandwich too.
Q. Do you remember where that was?
A. I was at the shop there, it's a little shop near the school.
Q. A little shop near the school you got a toasted sandwich and a cup of coffee?
A. Yeah.
Q. What'd you do then?
A. Then I left and drove around past Port Arthur and went and, went in to see the Martins. Mmm.
Q. Was there anyone else there when you ahh, called in?
A. No, I umm, unfortunately I held up a car, I took ahh, I saw this car I liked and got umm, held up the person in the car and kidnapped him.
Warren:
Q. Kidnapped him?
A. Mmm.
Paine:
Q. When you say held up.
A. That was actually past the Martins. Ohh actually, that was on the corner of Palmers Lookout. No I didn't really, didn't know whether I'd let you know you're not gonna let anyone else know. You're not gonna let anyone else know. Yeah, no, I stopped the car, I was in the Volvo, I stopped the car on the corner, there was a nice looking BMW and I asked them to get out of the car but the ...
Q. How many people were in it?
A. There was a child in there, in the back and a lady and the man. The man, I got him out the car, I had my gun with me and I said I want to take your car, so I took his car. I got, then his wife or girlfriend got into the Volvo with the child and I left, I drove off.
Q. So you drove away in the BMW?
A. Yes.
Q. With another male person?
A. Yeah, he was in the boot. I put him in the boot of the car.
Q. How did he get into the boot?
A. Bit like the Ben Morrison case isn't it?
Warren:
Q. You remember the Ben Morrison case do you?
A. Yeah.
Q. Yeah, what, what.
A. Umm.
Q. What do you remember about it?
A. I remember I saw you on television and I saw you that day at the Royal. I thought you were connected with Ben Morrison. Yeah I thought that was a rather dramatic.
Q. Mmm.
A. 'Cos Radloff's in here.
Paine:
Q. Who's in here?
A. Radloff, the man that was involved in the Ben Morrison.
Warren:
Q. Have you ever met him have you?
A. No, never.
Q. No.
A. Only heard about him but. Did you ever meet him?
Q. No, I never actually met him, no.
A. Ohh.
Paine:
Q. Have you met him?
Warren:
Q. But I know him.
A. You know him, yeah.
Q. Yeah.
Paine:
Q. Have you met him Martin?
A. No, I I've only read thingns about him in the paper, mmm.
Warren:
Q. What sort of things ah, do you think about him?
A. I don't know. Funny guy. I think things went wrong with him.
Q. Mmm.
A. Like they did with me and. Paine:
Q. Back, just.
A. And later on you'll think twice why did, why did you do these things and, yeah.
Q. Martin, just back to the BMW. How did this guy get to get in the boot?
A. I put him in the boot because I had a gun.
Q. Which gun did you have?
A. I had the umm.
Q. Can Mr Warren hold it up?
A. That AR15. You see if people didn't do these unfortunate things, you guys wouldn't have a job.
Q. Well there's a lot of truth in that Martin, let me tell you.
Warren:
Q. That one there?
A. Yes.
Q. Yeah.
A. That was the one.
Q. This is the one.
A. It's a sweet little gun. Because it's so light. How light is it?
Q. Can you remember what you said ahh, this fellow?
A. Hey mate, can you get out of your car please, I'm gonna take your car.
Q. Did, and you had this pointed at him did you?
A. Yeah I had it pointed at him.
Q. Right.
A. And moving it backwards and forwards with his wife and child too.
Paine:
Q. Was the gun loaded?
A. Yeah the gun was loaded, yeah had about eight, nine rounds in it. Mmm.
Q. And where did this take place Martin sorry?
A. At the Fortesque Bay turnoff, just, ohh about three or four minutes away from the Martin's farm.
Q. To which side of ...
A. That was.
Q. ... The Seascape is Fortesque Bay turnoff?
A. Ahh, before you go to Seascape on the way to, on the way to Hobart.
Q. So it's on the Hobart side of Seascape?
A. Mmm.
Q. Right. And where did you drive then?
A. I drove full speed, it was about, I was going about 140 Ks up the road and went into Seascape. Just drove down there in the BMW.
Warren:
Q. Where, can you remember where you drove when you went into Seascape?
A. I remember skidding on some grass and, I had a heap of petrol, had some petrol with me, I put some petrol in the BMW.
Paine:
Q. And what happened then?
A. Well what happened then, I knocked on the door to see the Martins but there was no answer. And what happened is I remember the explosion.
Q. Where was ...
A. I think, I don't know whether I put the car on, lit the car up or not.
Q. Sorry?
A. I don't know whether I lit the car up or not but there was an explosion.
Q. Where was the man that was?
A. He must've been trapped in the boot, the hostage.
Q. Where did the petrol come from?
A. A service station.
Q. Which service station?
A. Umm, where do you get the petrol, in Elizabeth Street self serve.
Q. So you had it in drums?
A. Mmm.
Q. Can you describe the ...
A. Plastic, just plastic drums.
Q. What color were they?
A. Red.
Q. Red plastic containers?
A. Mmm.
Q. How many did you have with you?
A. Ohh two or three on me. Just in case, I used to often run out of petrol you see and oil, I didn't have any oil on me at the time but I had petrol.
Q. When did you say you ran out of petrol, in the Volvo you're talking about.
A. Mmm.
Q. How come you ran out of petrol?
A. Ohh the, it, it was the gauge was pretty, fairly faulty you know.
Q. The gauge was faulty?
A. Yeah.
Q. Ohh.
A. And then.
Q. How did the BMW go?
A. good.
Q. Do they go petty well do they?
A. Yeah.
Warren:
Q. Was it an automatic or manual?
A. Automatic.
Q. Mmm. Paine:
Q. What model was, was it, do you remember?
A. Well, I was a ... inaudible ... Ohh it was a fairly high model, fairly big model, you know. Mmm. Worth a fair bit of money they say, fifty, sixty thousand dollars a car. I was rapt up in it when I saw it.
Warren:
Q. Mmm.
A. I would love to own a BMW.
Paine:
Q. What color was it?
A. Gold. It was a gold BMW.
Q. After you left Roaring Beach and before the BMW, did you speak to anyone?
A. Only the, think in the shop in Nubeena when I got the toasted sandwich and ...
Q. Did you speak to anyone before you went to Roaring Beach surfing?
A. Ahh, oh I had a coffee at Sorell.
Q. Coffee at Sorell.
A. Yeah. q. Right.
A. And something to eat, I forget what i had to eat. Q, And what about Mr Larner?
A. Mr Larner. Larner's were the people who used to agist the horses umm, my Mum and myself had a horse and my sister, we used to just, they've got a, got a farm.
Q. Speak up.
A. They've got a farm at Port Arthur. Mmm. No, last time I seen them was probably going back ten years ago, mmm. But then.
Q. Did you used to go down to Port Arthur regularly sort of, of weekends and holidays?
A. Mmm. Nearly every weekend. Mmm.
Warren:
Q. Is this when you were a young fella?
A. Mmm. The Martins won a farm too, next to the Larners.
Paine:
Q. Were you on your own when you went to Port Arthur, oh Roaring Beach that day?
A. Yes. Mmm. I was. I wish I'd took my girlfriend but like I said, it's good for her to go home on a Sunday to her parents.
Q. Alright, back to Seascape. So.
A. Yeah, back to Seascape.
Q. You got out of the car.
A. Back to the Pink Palace.
Q. Is that what you used to call it?
A. Yeah, most people down there used to call it the Pink Palace 'cos it's pink.
Q. Right so we've got, you've got out of the BMW?
A. Mmm.
Q. Tipped petrol, where'd you tip the petrol?
A. I don't recall because it ws a vast explosion and I had my gun strapped around me.
Q. Which one?
A. The AR15 there.
Q. The one Mr Warren lifted up a short time ago?
A. Yeah. Mmm.
Q. Right. And what'd you do with that?
A. And umm, I also had me shotgun.
Q. Your shotgun?
A. Yeah, And I don't remember anything else.
Warren:
Q. Where did you have the shotgun Martin?
A. I left that in the Volvo.
Q. When you went to Seascape?
A. Yeah.
Q. You left the shotgun in the Volvo?
A. Yeah. 'Cos I was all shaky 'cos I had this bloke hostage and ...
Q. What about his ahh, what about the lady?
A. Yeah I got her to go, get into the Volvo so the child went in too. She was just there shocked. Devastated. Mmm. So ...
Paine:
Q. Did you actually knock on the door at Seascape?
A. Mmm, few times, went around the back, knocked on the door, no answer.
Warren:
Q. Do you remember talking to anyone that morning, that same morning at Seascape?
A. No.
Q. Are you sure about that?
A. Mmm. Paine:
Q. Did you go inside at Seascape?
A. No. You can ask me questions. It'd be interesting if I could hear some of yours, you know, like your other, if you've got other things that you could tell me on you report.
Q. Did you get the hostage's name?
A. No, not at all.
Q. So apart from ...
A. What have you got on your report? Is there other things that you reckon I've done down there?
Q. Yes there are.
A. What like?
Q. Well you see.
A. Tell me.
Q. If you could tell us.
A. No I don't.
Warren:
Q. Do you, you've already said that you rememberd me going to see you at the hospital?
A. Ohh yes. Mmm.
Q. And that I told you that you were being charged with ...
A. A murder count.
Q. A murder.
A. Yeah.
Q. What recollection have you got of that?
A. Must've been the hostage, the bloke in the BMW must've died.
Q. That's what you think it is is it?
A. Mmm.
Q. Do you remember me telling you who you were charged with murdering?
A. No I don't ... inaudible ...
Q. Do you remember me mentioning a name?
A. A murder count. No I don't I remember yes, I remember you mentioning a name but ...
Q. Mmm.
A. I don't actually vaguely remember who it ws or, who was it actually?
Q. Right, well I mentioned to you.
A. Mmm.
Q. I told you you were being charged wih the murder of a woman called Kate Scott.
A. Ohh.
Q. Does that register with you?
A. No. I mean I let the lady go into the Volvo, I didn't hurt her or anything. No I don't register, it doesn't register.
Paine:
Q. Did you have any favorite restaurants at Port Arthur? A, What sort of work did she do?
Warren:
Q. Well I don't know to be honest ahh, Martin.
A. Mmm. Ahh, no favorite restaurants, ohh Kelly's is pretty good, that's at, out, just it's not quite into Port Arthur. You turn off, that's actually in Stewart's Bay ... inaudible ... Paine:
Q. And is that next to the service station is it?
A. Umm, next to the service station. It's about a kilometre.
Q. So you recommend we visit that one?
A. Yeah recommend.
Q. But that's the only one?
A. Damn chair, it's a nuisance when they're not that comfortable these ... inaudible ...
Q. No ours aren't that comfortable either.
A. Let's swap then. Mmm. Mmm.
Q. Did you actualy go into Port Arthur site that day?
A. No I wouldn't have because it would've cost me. In think about twenty five dollars to have gone in. It would've been pointless for me to even have thought about going in. 'Cos I didn't have, I had only about ten, fifteen dolars on me.
Q. How did you pay with your ...
A. For the day.
Q. Your cup of coffee that you said youi bought at Sorell?
A. Ohh I had some coins.
Q. What did you have the coins contained in?
A. In the glovebox in my car.
Q. Just loose in the glovebox?
A. Mmm. That's about all I had that day, coins. Gold coins.
Q. Did you need another drink?
A. Yeah, my lips are drying up.
Paine:
Q. I suppose when you lived at Port Arthur, or when you used to visit Port Arthur, there wasn't a fee to get into the site?
A. Mmm.
Q. Times have changed haven't they?
A. Yeah. Is there a, is there still a fee, have they still got the ...
Q. Well I supppose so.
A. Mmm.
Q. You have to pay a fee to get into all parks and reserves don't you in Tasmania?
A. Yeah, people weren't happy there because they've got that toll box to pay to get into Port Arthur.
Q. Have you ever gone into Port Arthur and paid the toll?
A. Umm, it was there but when my parents had the shack, had a sticker and you had a shack or residence, you didn't have to pay so you just drove past.
Q. What about say in the last couple of months?
A. No, never. I haven't been in Port Arthur probably six, seven yars. Mmm.
Q. Have you toured around the state, Tasmania as, extensively or?
A. Not, not, went up to Deloraine a couple of times and Launceston and ...
Q. Do you know people up there?
A. No. No I don't.
Q. Oh right.
A. It'd be good actually to have some friends in Launceston you could stay with. Yeah I wish it had a few more friends. But I didn't have a great deal of friends at school so it made things difficult.
Q. Back at, back to Seascape. What happened when no one answered the door?
A. I went round to the back.
Q. You went round to the back? And what did you do there?
A. No answer the door there either.
Q. No.
A. So next thing is I must've played around with petrol.
Q. Must've played around with the petrol.
A. Mmm.
Warren:
Q. What do you mean, you must've played around with the petrol?
A. Set fire to the, to the car.
Q. Can you remember doing that? You say you must.
A. No I can't. Vaguely. Vaguely remember a flash and I must've been in the car when it went up 'cos I got burnt so. Mmm. Someone's whistling.
Paine:
Q. And you said to us earlier that you think that the hostage at that stage must've been in the car, that's, is that correct or?
A. In the boot.
Q. Must've stil been in the boot?
A. Yes.
Q. Yeah.
A. Mmm.
Warren:
Q. How do you feel about that Martin?
A. Pretty awful. Mmm.
Paine:
Q. Just excuse me for a moment please Martin, do you want another drink?
A. No, no.
INSPECTOR PAINE LEAVES THE ROOM.